An explanation the media has routinely given for Stephen Curry’s surging popularity is he’s “an everyman.” Something like,
“Kids see Lebron and they’re like, “I can’t do that.” They see Steph though and they realize, “Ok, I can practice that.” Steph doesn’t jump out of the gym, he’s not 6’10” like Durant, he’s not 250 pounds like Lebron. He’s more relatable.”
We’ve already examined Lebron James’ jumping ability. With a true vertical somewhere around 30-33 inches. Compared to NBA players he’s alright; compared to NFL guys, like virtually all NBA players, he’s mediocre.
Fortunately with Steph, we have exact information on his jumping ability due to participating in the NBA combine.
What we’ll focus on to start here is the No Step Vert. Which is this:
Max vert is jumping with a run up. Like this:
Whenever you see Lebron or someone quote him as having a vertical jump of 40 inches, that’s yet another attempt for attention from Lebron with a run up. Without a run up, again he comes in at ~31.5 inches.
Steph comes in at 29.5!
Right away someone is going, “That’s bullshit. No way Steph jumps anywhere near as high as Lebron.” I bet you’re thinking Steph doesn’t jump as high as Blake Griffin either, but:
The highlighted here is max vert. So jumping with a run up. Steph Curry can jump exactly as high as Blake Griffin (with a run up. Blake has him beat by 2.5 inches in pure jumping).
In fact, Steph isn’t too far down the list at the 2009 draft:
Here is his ranking for pure vert:
To give a sense of his ranking, here are how many guys were below him just in the 2009 draft. This is those who participated at some kind of combine. We’ll first show where he is again, then those below him:
He’s much closer to the top than the bottom. The average of all those numbers is 27.73. Steph is nearly two inches better than the average.
How about a guy who is being talked about as one of the most athletic players to ever play? Russell Westbrook.
He comes in at a measly half inch higher than Steph in the no step vert, and only a paltry one inch higher in the max vert! One of the most athletic to ever play is Westbrook, yet Steph is a guy we can all relate to???
-> To really hammer home the dominance NFL players have athletically over NBA guys, here are the vertical jump numbers from the 2008 NFL combine, for defensive backs. We’ll use d-back because that’s where I’ve heard media members routinely say he could play e.g. good luck playing running back at the only buck ninety Westbrook weighs.
Westbrook’s 30 inch pure vertical would be an afterthought-
Ok, how about wide receivers? How many of these names have you even heard of? Yet they jump higher than Westbrook. Russ should get more credit for the effort behind how he plays; not the physical ability. The physical really isn’t that impressive, relatively speaking-
I heard Steph asked in a Dan Patrick interview if he could take Cam Newton in a race.
“Are you serious?”
As in, “Uh, no.”
But there is no doubt Westbrook is a much flashier dunker than Curry.
So what gives? Some may think something along the lines of what Jerry Rice, who clearly has early dementia, thinks.
“So Jerry, is it true you could only run the 40 in 4.8 seconds?”
“If you have someone chasing me, I could run it in 4.2.”
We have the “game speed” argument. Where right before a game starts a person reads some Harry Potter, gets an invisible broom put under their ass, and suddenly they have running and jumping powers they never had before.
Let’s look at Russell Westbrook hitting the peak of his jumps in some of those dunks.
Hopefully we all agree Westbrook can get “almost to the backboard.” (Keep in mind that blue padding on the bottom of the backboard is below the backboard.) Maybe 2 inches below?
The backboard is ~114 inches high.
Russell is 75.5 inches tall with shoes on.
He can get his head two inches below the backboard, or 112 inches high, jumping with a run up.
- 112 inches – 75.5 inches = 36.5 inches
Where’d we hear that number before?
-> When you’re Jerry Rice you don’t need to be that fast when you had four of the 34 most accurate quarterbacks ever throw you the ball. (And countless hall of fame teammates.) Yes, he ran great routes, but god damn is that some good fortune. Coupled with his longevity, this will be the toughest aspect for any receiver to break his records.
Then why isn’t Steph breaking rims off like Westbrook is?
Well, Steph can get pretty fancy with the dunking…when he feels like it:
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For a guy who is 6’3″ (with shoes on), that is not an easy dunk. Nor is this:
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On the 360, Steph looks like he’s getting damn close to the backboard with his head.
And here (while a low angle shot can be misleading, look how far his head is up the net):
If his head weren’t leaning back here:
Not quite where Westbrook is, but quite close. Yet we expect him to bit shy of Westbrook with his one inch lesser leaping ability. But that’s only an inch. Then we need to look at,
- We have our inch difference in running jumping ability
- Steph is a quarter inch shorter
- Westbrook has a three inch longer reach
Steph then Russ:
That’s 4.25 inches added up right there. When it comes to dunking, that’s a ton. Easily the difference between being able to dunk and not. Easily the difference between slamming the hell out of the ball and just getting it down. Just think the difference between a 6’3.25″ guard and a 5’11” one. That’s a Golden Gate gap to bridge.
-> Another under appreciated factor here is with those long of limbs, Westbrook probably has significantly larger hands, making palming the ball -crucial in dunking- much easier.
We can see this by examining each guy’s max vert reach. How high can they get their hand when they jump?
Westbrook 10’10”; Steph 10’6.5″
Westbrook gets 3.5 inches higher. With a three inch longer reach and being a little taller, Westbrook is barely jumping higher than Steph. He’s getting higher, but primarily through means besides jumping. It’s similar to why we don’t expect Steph to dunk like Blake Griffin. Not because Blake has the incentive of more Kia commercials they jump so differently, but because Blake’s way taller.
So we shouldn’t be surprised when Steph makes “one of the greatest athletes to ever play basketball” look lost:
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Multiple times,
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Or jumps on top of him to steal the ball (1:10 mark),
It’s because he’s barely behind Russ athletically!
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With males having an average height of 5’9.3″ in America, and Steph at 6’2″ with no shoes on, a big majority of kids still won’t be able to relate to him height wise. With him jumping higher than an NBA draft class’ average, most won’t be able to relate to his jumping ability either.
That said, Steph does have a leaping ability many, many, many could train their way to. His reported deadlift of 400 pounds is a number many could get to. And strength is a big part of leaping ability. (Why NFL players jump so much higher- much stronger relationship with the weight room.) You can work your way to a 29.5 inch vertical. Athletic prowess is not the bottleneck for many to becoming an NBA player. Height is.
Now…can you work your way to apparently the vision of a hawk, a truly ambidextrous handle, shooting better than anyone has ever shot a basketball (think about that, it’s crazy!), who grew up watching and learning from one of the best shooters ever (his dad) so by your 20s you already have more than two decades of expert shooting tutoring, with the ability to do this,
Causing percentage wise the best three point shooter of all time -his head coach!- to not even believe it. Because Steve Kerr could never drain threes shooting like that!
Using Steve Kerr as our proverbial seque into the Bulls- yeah, we know, rules are different, hand checking, yada yada. One thing not mentioned is how the ’95-’96 Bulls had a three point line where the arc was two feet closer to the rim! Curry is barely behind Kerr in all time three point percentage, but Kerr was a set-up shooter, and had three seasons with a shortened three point line.
And hand checking had been basically eliminated by ’94. (More details here.) “Imagine if Jordan played without hand checking!” He did, and he didn’t score anymore than in ’86-’87, nor did his shooting percentage go up at all.
Then there all these old timers hating on Steph and the Warriors yet multiple orgasming for Kobe and how great his work ethic was. 1) Kobe played with all the rule changes implemented 2) However much he practiced he still shot eleven percent worse from three point land than Steph, and three percent worse from two point land. But Kobe is great and Steph wouldn’t score 20 a game back in the old days? Sure. Now lecture us on how music isn’t as good anymore.
-> “Kobe’s just old school.” Wonder how old school it was to be the highest paid player in the league this year, play awfully, and routinely tell people you’re retiring because “I don’t want to do it anymore.” But remember, Kobe’s all about winning.
In other news, Scottie Pippen insists how much tougher things were back then, yet continually forgetting how much of a vagina he was in 1994. Congratulations Pip. You’ve finally exceeded Jordan…when it comes to how good you are at telling people to get off your lawn.
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Freaks don’t always come in the form of size, speed, or jumping ability. Freakishness can encompass more than the superlatives of fastest, highest, strongest.
It’s doubtful many more people will be able to relate to Curry than can relate to Lebron. Try doing Curry’s warm-up routine and see if it’s any less humbling than attempting to dunk like Lebron. No other sport seems so fixated on the past. It’s like the NBA community needs therapy. You wanted something incomparable to Jordan and it’s going on right in front of you. (No, that doesn’t mean he’s better than Jordan. It means his play is that noteworthy.) We should enjoy it while it lasts.
The kids practicing like Steph can mimic him all they want, but just like his teammates who can hire his trainer, do his warm-up, watch exactly how he does everything, they still can’t do what he does. They still don’t have a shooting range where a defender has to pick you up at half court. His own brother can’t do what he does. It’s like when that guy won the Master’s by 12 strokes, “Oh, I’m sure if I practice enough I could play like Tiger.” Right.
A lot of people have played a lot of basketball, yet nobody has ever played basketball like this. It’s awesome, and there is a lot to learn from. Like his dedication to training, the different things he does, his warm up routine, his relaxed family life outside of basketball. But thinking anybody can practice to this is probably, like Steph’s game, straight up silly.
Now turn on the Warriors game tonight instead of the Lakers. You’ve already seen a better version of Kobe (Jordan). You’ve never seen a team go for 73 wins, and you’ve never seen something like Steph Curry.
John
April 16, 2016
I love doing these calculations too. But as Westbrook’s fan I have to disagree with some points in this article. He can jump higher than 36.5 inches. His numbers surely increased since draft. Highest I’ve seen his head at was about 3 inches above lower bottom of backboard when he did hit his head at backboard on his way down :
[redacted broken link]
http://cdn.slamonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Screen-Shot-2015-02-15-at-10.54.56-PM.png
And he also went damn high on his two handed reverse pump: https://youtu.be/U-lcMhI9ke8
[broken redacted link]
So do the math. Backboard, including padding, is 9’4 off the ground. His head is about 3-3.5 inches above it. So 9’7-6’3 is 40 inches running vert+it was in game, so I think if he tried just to jump as high as he can before game, he could get his head at 9’8. So I’d say his max running vert is 41 inches. But that’s not the best thing that makes him so great on the court. His explosiveness is. Although there are many guys who can jump much higher than Westbrook, they can’t match with the speed, flashyness,power he plays with.The speed he can go through the whole court and finish hammering tomahawk over defenders is unreal. And that’s what Curry, and nobody, can compete with him in. Maybe prime time Rose or John Wall, but that’s still not off Westbrook’s quality. And there are some college prospects who can get to his level, like Dennis Smith, check him out. Curry can’t compete with him in therms of athleticism.
And Blake’s numbers increased after draft too. Last year in college he didn’t look that fast as in his first nba seasons. He looked too stiff. Than had a one year delayed rookie season because of injury and when he got in nba, he was regularly getting his head at the rim level on alley oop dunks, so that’s 38 inches running vert, but i’m sure he was rarely above rim, so maybe even more. Very close to 40 if not 40 in his prime time jumping years. In last 2 seasons, he doesn’t jump as high as he used to. I think he doesn’t risk jumping over big guys like he used to when he was young,. Those were really scary looking dangerous jumps with him often falling on the floor.
John had a link which he updated and added another, so I edited his original comment to have those.
reddyb
April 16, 2016
Hey John,
The first photo isn’t working for me, but in the second photo I believe you’re referencing this video- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Itq4v3JMbt8
And this-
He’s only touching the gray pad. At best we could say looks like he’s getting to maybe to the backboard there, which would only bump things by two inches.
I should have pointed out I didn’t go hunting for the one highest dunk these guys have gotten. I’m more inclined to go with how high does a guy get on multiple occasions rather than only one dunk, e.g. this dunk was last year so quite far removed from the jump numbers I used, we don’t know how thick of shoes were they wearing that one day, who knows if on combine day they really didn’t hit their best (this happens all the time in the NFL combine, then guys do better at their pro day), etc. so this is why I used multiple photos for each, but it’s fair to bring up.
But then we’re making this into a “Well, if he got to do his absolute max.” But then we could say the same for Steph, who doesn’t even care about dunking. I could also say none of the videos or pictures of Steph involved an alley oop, which with the extra incentive of having to get up to a ball, only helps. (There is actual research that having an external cue to work on, like going up after a ball, increases performance relative to an internal cue. “Reach my arm as high as I can.”)
And then if we’re going to say “Blake and Russ likely both increased their verts since college,” we could probably say the same thing for Steph. Curry seems to have gotten a much stronger relationship with the weight room / training since college, and Curry is the only one whose game has improved like it has. Blake and Russ haven’t improved anything like what he’s done since their time in the league. We’re talking back to back MVPs here.
It’s all fair, but if we go down this road we could also say Blake and Russ left college a year earlier than Steph, so they may have even grown a little taller since being in the league. I believe it was Kobe back in the day who had to sit out some games because he was going through growing pains.
All that said, Curry can’t compete in athleticism yet has no problem scoring on Westbrook and anybody in the league…Before we say skill, like his handle, hand eye coordination is an athletic skill as well, but flashiness is not!
The biggest jumper of Curry’s draft, Patrick Beverly, will actually be guarding him in this playoff series. http://www.mercurynews.com/sports/ci_29771879/watch-patrick-beverleys-defensive-tenacity-will-be-tested?source=rss
Some reason I don’t think we have to worry about Steph being shut down :). May add some intrigue as a viewer now though! Considering the series probably won’t be great.
Brandon
May 14, 2016
You’re a bird. Russ is way more athletic. Steph is slow and def can’t jump as high as Russ.
reddyb
May 17, 2016
Edward Guzman
July 16, 2017
Steph Curry cannot reach as high as Blake. So when you extrapolate that Steph can jump as high or close to Blake, you effectively mean he can get same number for his anthropometry, but he cannot jump up as high or close to Blake’s jump with an objective measure because he is much smaller. Blake jumping 32 inches and Steph jumping 32 inches is a whole different thing.
b-reddy
July 18, 2017
Hey Edward,
I tried to be specific as to how to interpret jumping vs reaching. From the post:
Reach is a different metric than vertical jump. Point of the post was to assess jumping ability, not extrapolate to reaching ability. (The post is called Steph Curry CAN jump. Not Steph Curry CAN reach high.) Jumping ability is a common athletic trait, with Curry often said to be lacking- both jumping and athletic ability. Reach (/ height) is not commonly thought of as an athletic trait. Point was to show Curry is as athletic as people we commonly believe to be more athletic, but that doesn’t always manifest.
JackC88
July 19, 2017
I know Steph can jump, but why can’t he dunk consistently? With a running vertical reach of over 11 feet, the ball should at least go into the rim more times than not, even if it’s not a huge slam.
b-reddy
July 21, 2017
Good question!
The last time I saw him appear to try was early in this year’s playoffs. When he landed you could see he yet again hurt an ankle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MI_QXDLXwIs
He played it off, but missed some practice. When joking about it this was notable:
Appears the extra force needed when attempting a dunk, on propulsion and landing, doesn’t agree with his ankle history. Back at the NBA combine his ankles weren’t an issue yet.
(Wrote more about his ankles in: https://b-reddy.org/2016/07/13/how-golf-can-negatively-impact-the-ankles-is-golf-a-good-off-season-activity-for-basketball-players/ )
JackC88
July 22, 2017
Oh, so maybe it’s like a mental thing? Like he’s always conscious of the possibility of getting injured. I know that can always shake someone’s confidence.
b-reddy
July 23, 2017
Combination of mental and physical. Per the golf post, his ankles have become chronically lax. He still tweaks his ankles on a regular basis (side note: one reason believed for his slower shoe sales is the bulkiness of the ankle area, which are specifically made for his ankles), and landing from a jump is one of the most common ways basketball players sprain their ankle. Not attempting dunking, the most intense of jumping, is an insurance policy for him.