In Musings on scapular winging there was a comment exchange where I had trouble getting through to the person the importance not just of proper exercises, but not letting the scapula(e) wing during the day. If you let your scapula wing for 23 hours, 1 hour of exercise is unlikely to get the job done.
For some people, their shoulder blade wings when they move their arm. For others, it not only does this, but it will be held in a winging position in stance.
Which is what I was trying to get at. The person kept referencing the “appearance of winging” during the day and I kept saying “Stop winging during the day then.” Rather than harp on various exercises, harp on the thing you want to correct: The winging appearance even while standing.
Say a person has a right scapula which is held in a winging position. Rather than do a bunch of exercises in the hope your scapula stops winging, you could put your left hand under your right scapula,
then “push” the bottom portion of the shoulder blade forward, and boom, you’re no longer winging.
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Watch how the fingers go from being able to protrude under the scapula to then -when it’s pushed forward- being on top of the scapula. The idea here is if the fingers can get under the scapula, it’s probably winging. If the fingers can no longer get under the shoulder blade, you’re probably getting what we want.
Slow motion:
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This takes some practice. If you’re having trouble, you probably aren’t pushing your elbow forward enough.
Winging
Not winging.
Basically, what the person ends up doing is a small amount of arm flexion -bringing their arm forward and up- with some emphasis on keeping the scapula pushed forward. This is what I emphasized exercise wise in my long scapular winging post i.e. the need for arm flexion and overhead exercises. NOT pulling and arm extension exercises.
The great thing about this is you can periodically check yourself throughout the day. Simply move your opposite hand under the afflicted scapula; can you get your fingers between your scap and ribcage? If so, you’re probably winging. The other great thing about this is you’re correcting your winging all day, rather than only while exercising. Hard to have a winging scapula during the day if you don’t let it wing during the day.
This doesn’t work with everyone. If the person is significantly overweight, or has issues with both shoulders, they may not be able to reach the opposite arm behind the back. Or, if the person has issues with both shoulders winging, then reaching one arm behind the back may help the other shoulder not wing, while simultaneously cause the reaching shoulder to wing.
You can see this a bit in the videos. The left hand is providing feedback to help prevent winging in the right shoulder, yet the position the left arm is in causes a propensity for winging on the left side. If only one side is giving issues you can probably get away with this, at least for a while. For example, right shoulder hurts but left doesn’t. So, you allow the left arm to go into a less than ideal position at times to help alleviate the right shoulder pain.
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Jennifer A Thompson
December 12, 2013
Thanks for the info, unfortunately I have winging on both sides so I don’t think I’m an ideal candidate for this exercise.
What are your thoughts about using a foam roll to help stretch pecs (6×36″ lying with roller along spine and letting arms stretch to the side)?
I had been doing this regularly, but then I started getting some numbness in my left shoulder & arm afterwards, so I backed off. I might have been doing it too long or pushing too hard (I noticed the furher I moved my arms overhead the more of a stretch I would get).
Thanks!
reddyb
December 12, 2013
Hey Jennifer,
If I’m envisioning the stretch you’re mentioning correctly, that can be alright. If the person is stiff, that’s probably going to be too hard.
Being able to get the arms to the ground is usually plenty:
In the above the person is pretty flexible. Many with stiffness can’t even get that low. In that case, you plop their elbows up with some padding to lessen the stretch. As their stiffness improves, they can get closer to the ground. If you’re getting numbness, that’s a good sign you need to regress the exercise.
Philip
December 18, 2013
Hi Brian, what are your opinions on indian club swinging? I bought a pair of 2lb clubs and i swing them for a few minutes every morning. It really helps me hold better shoulder posture throughout the day http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8y81dhm1L8
reddyb
December 18, 2013
Hey Philip,
I haven’t used clubs before. I could see how they’d be a nice way to loosen up the shoulders.
For scapular winging though, I wouldn’t use them.
John
April 21, 2014
Hi reddyb. Thanks for the well-written articles you have here on your site.
I have winged scapulas and I’m trying to get rid of it. They are not winging when the arms are hanging to the sides.
For me, it’s really hard to properly activate the serratus when needed. When I’m doing any pulling motion, it’s stuck along the back, but when raising the arms in front of me or pushing, the scapula wings.
Although, when I first pull and then directly do push ups, they are not winged for a couple of push ups. They will eventually wing again if I don’t do any pulling motion again.
When you describe how you should ““push” the bottom portion of the shoulder blade forward”, I don’t really understand what you mean. How? I’m unable to do it, at least without tensing the whole arm, shoulder and lats in the same time. What cues are there to help me with it?
reddyb
April 22, 2014
Hey John,
I’m not sure I have any better cues than that. It’s something which can take a good deal of practice. By that I mean weeks, not just a few reps.
If you’re doing push ups and pulling exercises, you’re doing exercises which are 1) Too hard and 2) Not conducive to helping winging. These are two articles you might find helpful: http://b-reddy.org/2013/07/25/musings-on-scapular-winging-anatomy-muscular-and-nerve-causes-and-exercise-considerations/ and http://b-reddy.org/2013/09/05/a-progression-to-lifting-your-arms-overhead-pain-free/
Nathan
August 12, 2016
Hi Brian,
I have a concern about my winged scapula in regards to this exercise. It may be that I’m doing this wrong or maybe because I’m equally winged, but the only way to get my scapula to not be winged using this method is to lift my arm nearly horizontally in front of me, and even then it’s only because my scapula has gone forward nearly to the side of my body. I saw another post you had and what I have matches exactly with Low Shoulders. My shoulders are low, the superior angle actually protrudes from the top, and my upper traps lift up and create a huge depression with my collarbone when I lift my arms horizontal. I’ve had winging for as long as I can remember and also had poor posture for years. That combined with a heavy backpack and intense tennis is my issue I’m guessing. Is there anything I can do to help fix this issue? I’m still a teen and don’t have pain yet, but I do have trouble with some motions and often feel tense in the upper back/shoulder area.
reddyb
August 14, 2016
Hey Nathan,
Unless you had some serious injury to the long thoracic nerve, then this type of stuff can usually be cleaned up.
If you’re having issues more when the arm is down or coming down, you can take a look at this: https://b-reddy.org/2016/02/24/an-example-of-correcting-scapular-winging-in-one-minute/
In terms of some general help for low shoulders, feel free to check this out and the associated manuals: https://b-reddy.org/2014/11/18/7-very-common-posture-issues-and-how-to-correct-them/
In terms of specific help, this is the place to start: https://b-reddy.org/2013/06/20/the-remote-client-process/