I’m going to reference Scapular winging: anatomical review, diagnosis, and treatments often.
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Anatomy of scapular winging (muscular)
Serratus anterior
Of course, we have to start with this muscle.
The serratus anterior protracts and upwardly rotates the scapula.
Let’s use a nice quote from the paper to get more specific. Pictures and bolding from me:
“The serratus anterior is a broad flattened sheet of muscle originating from the first nine ribs and passes posteriorly around the thoracic wall before inserting into the costal surface of the medial border of the scapula.
(Fancy talk for it goes from the ribs to the scapula.)
The serratus anterior has three functional components. The superior component originates from the first and second ribs and inserts into the superior medial angle of the scapula. This component serves as the anchor that allows the scapula to rotate when the arm is lifted overhead.
The middle component of the serratus anterior originates from the third, fourth, and fifth ribs and inserts on the vertebral border of the scapula, serving to protract the scapula.
The inferior component originates from the sixth to ninth ribs and inserts on the inferior angle of the scapula. This third portion serves to protract the scapula and rotate the inferior angle upward and laterally.
As a whole, the main function of the serratus anterior is to protract and rotate the scapula, keeping it closely opposed to the thoracic wall and optimizing the position of the glenoid for maximum efficiency for upper extremity motion.”
It’s not just about the serratus anterior
The serratus anterior is not the only muscle impacting a winging scapula. When a scapula wings it’s because it isn’t held close to the rib cage. The serratus anterior gets a lot of attention because it’s anterior to the scapula, and attaches to the scapula. When a scapula wings it often displaces posteriorly. Naturally, the thinking goes the serratus anterior is “long and weak” because the scapula isn’ t being held close to the ribcage.
However, other muscles connect anterior to the scapula, and connect to the scapula.
Trapezius
Because the spine is ventral to (in front of) the scapula the trapezius can pull the scapula a bit anteriorly. That is, closer to the ribcage.
Parts of the trapezius also fall on top of the shoulder blade.
If the trapezius is on slack, or not firing properly, the compression on the scapula lessens. Making it more likely the shoulder blade won’t be as tight to the ribcage, aka wing.
Rhomboids
For many of the same reasons above, the rhomboids can play a role in the shoulder blade winging too. Because this is so rare (the authors go over this too), I’m not going to cover it.
Position of the scapula
Due to the attachment sites of the above muscles, we can get a good feel for which muscles need work by the position of the scapula. A nice chart from the paper:
Right shoulder winging due to issues with the serratus anterior (it gets progressively worse):
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See how the scapula is traveling excessively medially and superiorly?
Winging due to issues with the trapezius:

From the paper: “Notice the lateral displacement of the scapula with the superior angle more lateral to the midline than the inferior angle.”
An important note here: I don’t think it’s feasible to fully separate these two impairments. When a serratus anterior issue is present it’s pretty much guaranteed there’s an issues with something like the trapezius. For instance, while this has serratus issues:
You can see issues with the trapezius as well. The superior angle (where the trapezius attaches) is lateral to the inferior angle. A sign the trapezius is also not firing like it should be.
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Anatomy of scapular winging (nerve)
Long thoracic nerve
Much like the serratus anterior, of course we have to go over this nerve. The long thoracic nerve is part of the brachial plexus.
The brachial plexus is a group of nerves which run down from the neck, under the clavicle, connecting to various points around the shoulder. 
-Image credit and copyright to Kenhub (great anatomy site!)
The long thoracic nerve connects into the serratus anterior:
Because this nerve is what gets the serratus anterior to fire, and people with scapular winging often have so much trouble getting their serratus to work, the long thoracic nerve gets a lot of attention. However, attacking the nerve doesn’t get us anywhere. We need to go after why the nerve has a problem. Why is it having trouble firing, thus the serratus anterior is having trouble firing. The nerve doesn’t just sporadically stop working one day.
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Figuring out the cause of scapular winging
“The serratus anterior is weak” is not a cause. “The long thoracic nerve isn’t working” is not a cause. Why are there issues with the serratus anterior? Why did it become weak? Why is it not firing properly? Why is the long thoracic nerve not helping?
Muscular
As I went over above, we’re primarily interested in getting the trapezius and or serratus anterior to work better. Muscles which help hold the scapula to the rib cage and lift (rotate) it upwards. With that, it’s logical to assume muscles which perform the opposite functions -pull the scapula away from the rib cage and or rotate it downwards- are likely working too much. Muscles such as, but not limited to, the rhomboids or pec minor. We want to calm them down. If they’re too active they can limit the ability of the trapezius and serratus anterior to do their jobs.
Nervous
We’re interested in anything which could limit the ability of the long thoracic nerve to fire. We’re primarily concerned with compression of the nerve. From the paper (when discussing the long thoracic nerve):
“Proposed vulnerable sites for injury include compression of the nerve between the clavicle and first rib and traction within the nerve’s fascial sheath.”
The clavicle and first rib may come closer together pinching the long thoracic nerve between them.
In my experience, this most often manifests with the clavicle / shoulder drooping.
Which goes hand in hand with our discussion of muscles pulling the shoulder down. The overactive muscles which may cause a shoulder to droop, are the same muscles which oppose the serratus anterior and trapezius.
This is the long way of saying you can’t really separate nerve issues from muscular issues. They work together. Granted, I once saw a woman who had her long thoracic nerve severed because of a mastectomy. Her winging was truly a nerve problem. But that’s the rare case. We’re more concerned with our average person.
So, how do these certain muscles become dominant? How does this nerve get compressed?
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Daily activities causing issues with scapular winging
I’m going rattle off a bunch of scenarios where the shoulders are being depressed / downwardly rotated.
Bra Straps
The downward pull of bra straps can cause the shoulders to become depressed over time.
This is especially poignant for those who carry a considerable amount of weight in their bra.
Carrying heavy objects
Much like the bra strap comments.
Computer Posture
The forward head posture causes the levator scapulae (downward rotator) to pull on the scapula
The internal rotation (hands / arms turned down and in) can cause stiffness in the pecs and lats. Both of which can limit our ability to get our arms up.
Leaning on elbows
This can push the shoulder into retraction, stiffening the rhomboids.
Next, this can indirectly cause winging. When leaning on the elbows the humerus can become displaced anteriorly (forward) and or superiorly (upward), lengthening the subscapularis.
A muscle which depressed the humeral head, pulling it posteriorly (backward) and inferiorly (downward).
When the subscapularis is lengthened it may shut down causing other humeral head depressors, such as teres minor and infraspinatus, to work more than they should.
These muscles can then stiffen up. This stiffness may appear when someone internally rotates their arm. Notice the winging during internal rotation here:
I didn’t go over this in the initial anatomy section, but stiff external rotators of the humerus can cause winging as well. Because these external rotators connect 1) anterior to the scapula and 2) to the scapula, similar to the muscles I went over earlier. The difference being these muscles internally rotate the scapula (away from the ribs), while the others externally rotate it (close to the ribs).
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Standing with hands on hips
This goes hand in hand with the above. The internal rotation causes issues with the lats and pecs, and the elbows behind the humerus promote anterior translation of the humeral head (stretching the subscapularis). All these muscles pull the arm downwards as well. Something we want to avoid in exercise too.
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Exercise routines causing issues with scapular winging
Too much pulling
Exercises such as DB rowing, chin ups, lat pulldowns, chest supported row, all work on muscles which downwardly rotate and retract the scapula, as well as extend the humerus. Muscles like the rhomboids, lats, teres minor and infraspinatus. As we’ve seen, if anything, in someone with scapular winging we want to atrophy these muscles.
Too much work in horizontal plane
Horizontal meaning the arms move forward (in front of body) and back (behind body), rather than up (overhead) and down (below head).
Going with that, horizontal pushing exercises, such as push-ups, bench pressing, DB bench pressing, all work the pecs to a great degree. Muscles we again want to calm down.
Yes, it’s true some scapular protraction is present. But this is where we go back to the function of the serratus anterior.
“the main function of the serratus anterior is to protract and rotate the scapula”
And there’s minimal, if any, upward rotation in any exercise only taking place in the horizontal plane. Now we can see why something like the push-up plus exercise is pretty much futile.
Some people will lift the arms up a bit higher to place the shoulders in more of an upwardly rotated position. If you want to really upwardly rotate the scapula you know what you could do even more of? Lift the arms higher. Like, all the way up. Isn’t this the goal anyways? To be able to lift the arms all the way up?
Furthermore, exercises like the push-up plus and others may promote scapular protraction while simultaneously promoting scapular retraction.
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Whatever you may be promoting in scapular abduction (protraction) you’re offsetting with adduction (retraction). Something you rarely want in a scapular winging issue, or most shoulder issues for that matter.
Note the similarities:
Pain during arm elevation due to excessive scapular retraction:
Looks pretty similar to the position of a push up plus:
Sure, you could cue around this (I rarely ever see someone do so), but you still have to account for the fact upward rotation is not being sufficiently attained.
Lack of overhead work
What you end up concluding is the way to solve these types of issues is not to avoid overhead work, but to embrace it. Overhead work enables us to:
- Fully utilize the serratus anterior and trapezius (upward rotators and preventers of winging)
- Stretch the pecs, lats, rhomboids, levator scapula (downward rotators)
- Stretch the infraspinatus and teres minor
This doesn’t mean you immediately start forcing your arm overhead. Some people need to very slowly work on their overhead range of motion. I’ve seen many a people who could only go a couple inches before their pain kicked in, and that’s ok. We don’t push into that pain, and we’ll see the range of motion improve with time.
Forcing me to disagree with this statement from the authors:
“Upon diagnosis, patients should be advised to avoid overhead use of the effected extremity and to avoid activities that cause pain.”
It’s not so much what you do, but how you do it. It’s not so much you shouldn’t bring your arms overhead, it’s how you go about doing it.
You’ll never be able to get your arms vertical by only working them in the horizontal.
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If you’re looking for some other steps you can take to help with scapular winging, specifically during the day, such as while typing and sitting, you may be interested in this.







































Rachel Murphy
March 21, 2016
Hi Brisn,
I have been suffering burning pain between right scapula and spine for approx 8 months. Swimming front crawl triggers the pain greatly. My SA is not functioning well, weaker compared to left side and I have tight traps. Pain started when carrying a heavy colicky newborn baby around for hours on end at night, always supporting his weight with my right arm. I have been prescribed press ups and similar, but all cause pain and I do ‘t feel I am going to build this muscle again under such circumstance. Do you think the carrying will have caused nerve damage and if so what can I do about it? I am carrying the baby differently as much as possible, but being a full time mum there is a lot of carrying to do!
Thanks, Rachel
reddyb
March 22, 2016
Hey Rachel,
Sorry to hear about your issues. I’d be surprised if something permanent was done when carrying your baby. More than likely those arms just need some proper exercise, along with changing up how you do routine things, like how you hold your kid. I go over exercises quite a bit in the post and in the comments. Also, think about that swimming front crawl. That would pull the arms down. If anything, you probably need to be working on doing the opposite. And or working on *how* you bring your arms down. Example here: http://b-reddy.org/2016/02/24/an-example-of-correcting-scapular-winging-in-one-minute/
Edit: Added link
rajendra singh
April 12, 2016
hello sir.
before 2 year ago i was fall down from moterbike and i am sufrring from pain on left shoulder till now. and my left shulder is winged also. and sir my left side rib is also lifted. sir i am very tired now. what may be the problm sir??. sir it may be long throcic nerve damge.?? if yes then sir what shuld i do??. i don’t have mony sir. if possible tell me few excersise. please help me sir i am very disappointed frrom 2 year.
reddyb
April 12, 2016
Hey Rajendra,
Sorry to hear about your injury. If the scapula has become winged, then it could be long thoracic nerve damage, yes.
There are a few things to work on this post, as well as the articles linked. Such as this one: http://b-reddy.org/2013/09/05/a-progression-to-lifting-your-arms-overhead-pain-free/
rajendra singh
April 13, 2016
thanx alot for rplying me sir. sir now i am very worried about it. how can i get rid from the long thorcic nerve injury sir??i am suffring from last 2 year and i am feeling lot of weakness.please help me sir.
reddyb
April 15, 2016
Try doing what’s in the article and the link I provided you.
rajendra singh
April 15, 2016
ok sir i will try.. thnanx alot sir..
zamin
April 14, 2016
Hello there,
Three days ago, I went to gym as I used to do… But found out that my right shoulder drooped down and a little out stretched to the side. This happened in one day but the pain, weakening and other symptoms have a long history; nearly four years.
Four years ago, I got a non-compressible disc bulge in an accident. I had MRI etc. and tried to manage my pain through physiotherapy and mild exercises as suggested by the therapist. I had a bad experience with the physiotherapy; the “neck traction” treatment put an adverse effect on my neck. Later, I only continued the mild exercises and quit the therapy. But since last year, gradually, I noticed some weakening and pain on my right arm which I tried to ignore, thinking that it was in my imagination only and continued with my routine and a little pain on my right side.
And now, it seems serious with my right shoulder drooped down.
I have been through this page of yours, It is really insightful and now I am much better informed about my problem than before. So, thank you very much.
Kindly, could you suggest me anything, because I think, I am scared… Plus I work with my right arm out stretched in front of me all day long in a standing posture. I am an artist, I paint.
Regards,
reddyb
April 17, 2016
Hey Zamin,
You may want to check out this manual: http://b-reddy.org/2015/07/20/a-guide-to-more-comfortable-typing-upper-body/
While it’s geared towards typing, there is a lot in there about how to manipulate the arm. It could very well apply to some of your painting.
Andy
May 19, 2016
Hi Brian,
Just reading your blog and finding it very informative. I have had right shoulder pain for a lot years. Various visits to docs, physios,etc have not helped.
Discovered today that I have damage to the nerves in the Rhomboideus Major. I am going for a cortisone injection next week. Specialist seems pretty adamant that there is not much more can be done and that the muscles that are not working will now never work.
I have a lot of pain just under the right scapula (that wings quite a lot). The pain never abates and is like a constant muscle cramp.
Do you think that any form of physio/excercise could improve this, or is pain management the only real option.
I do stretches prescribed by the physio, but they seem to have limited effect.
I have pretty much full range of movement, so that’s not an issue, just the pain.
Any advice would be appreciated.
Thanks, Andy
reddyb
May 20, 2016
Hey Andy,
I always have people in a situation like this perform exercise anyways. It is unfortunately true someone may not make much, if any, progress on the winging if the nerve is gone / significantly damaged. There are often still some things one can do to help though. (I go over some examples which would apply in the sitting / typing manual for instance: https://b-reddy.org/2015/07/20/why-typing-annoys-your-neck-shoulders-elbows-and-wrists-and-what-to-do-about-it/ )
If the nerve is still firing, I often feel good about making progress. It’s when the nerve is gone things like surgery may need to be looked at. For winging specifically, I haven’t seen enough people to know for sure, but my hunch is if the rhomboids are permanently damaged, that may be ok (progress can be made still), but when the serratus anterior is permanent damaged, that’s hard to overcome without looking at surgery.
I recently had someone like this who after a couple months it was obvious the thing just wasn’t going to change. He found this person and I believe is going to get the surgery: https://www.drnathwingingscapula.com
Can’t vouch for it right now. But if he has it done I will try to see how it works for him.
Jameson Blade
May 25, 2016
thank you for this! this is the absolute best article ive seen on this common issue thus far!
i am a personal trainer and am experiencing mild assymetrical scapular winging on my right side. i was a contractor doing tile, painting, heavy carrying, for 10 years, which involves constant assymetrical internal rotation on the dominant side, as your right arm is constantly moving in front of and across the body. i also use computers a lot.
last year i injured my rotator cuff bench pressing, and couldnt do any pressing movements whatsoever for about 7-8 months. the pain radiated down to all the areas you described as containing the brachial nerve- the biceps, triceps, especially surrounding the tendinous areas at the elbow, down the forearm, and even back to the scapula. tennis elbow-like issues also ensued. i self-rehabbed the rotator cuff and tennis elbow, not knowing scapular winging and anterior tightness and internal rotation were the initiator of this injury, or that displacement of the glenohumeral joint during heavy pressing was what brought me to this tipping point.
i noticed that coming off of the injury that closed-chain shoulder movements like dips, standing cable crossovers, where the scapula was not depressed against a bench or pad helped me prevent pectoral atrophy and strength loss without re-irritating the shoulder, whereas bench pressing (which puts pressure on the scapula when you cannot properly retract it) and bench flyes would irritate the injury further; i also noticed that eccentric, weight-loaded reps done overhead of exercises like a unilateral lat raise (without doing the contractile portion of the exercise) helped lengthen and ease the rotator cuff pain while re-building lost strength.
i recently re-injured this shoulder again bench pressing after having no trouble pressing again for following my (partial, as i know now) recovery. i believe it was because i did not originally realize the root cause is scapular winging on my right side, and perhaps some compression of the brachial plexus around the clavicle such as you mentioned.
one thing i realized while thinking about my lifting programming leading up to this re-injury is i have been neglecting overhead pressing because i tend to fear aggravating the shoulder that caused this all before. also, ive been doing tons of rows and presses (thickness builders) but failing to do much frequency of overhead pulling movements for either the back (lat pulldowns, cable pullovers) or for the chest (bench dumbbell pullovers) which both strengthen the serratus anterior.
so i realized ive been neglecting all of the exercises that stabilize the scapula against the thoracic spine unfortunately. 🙁
i do a lot of deltoid isolation exercises, and im not one of those guys who just bench press all day without keeping my back even, but i have not been paying much attention to my serratus and traps specifically.
any suggestions??
reddyb
May 28, 2016
Hey Jameson,
Would try the suggestions in the article and check this one out too: https://b-reddy.org/2014/07/20/bodybuilding-programming-issues-and-dealing-with-stubborn-clients/
Johnny Reagan
July 23, 2016
What about from blunt force trauma I was hit close to Centre of my back with a golf club I have never hurt so bad I couldn’t use my right arm at all for weeks. It’s been years and I still can’t hold the weight of my am out and up, my left rotator cuff is torn and it seems like exact kind of injury except I know my right arm is from the golf club to back is it possible to permanently damage the nerves that go up center of back over shoulder and entire length of arm
reddyb
July 26, 2016
Trauma is always capable of permanent damage. It can also cause new habits to form as well though. Might want to check this out: https://b-reddy.org/2011/06/02/example-of-impaired-movement-causing-pain/
rajendra singh
August 1, 2016
hello sir. i am suffering from accesory nerve injury from last 2 year. sir i am very dipressed now. my left scapula is winging and i am feeling very weak.there are stress in my neck left side and my muscle getting loss. sir please help me what should i do sir. i don’t have mony for treatment please tell me som benificial excercise sir. thankyou sir.
reddyb
August 2, 2016
Hey Rajendra,
I linked you some exercises in response to your last comment.
Neil.
September 22, 2016
Going on 25 years of winging scapula due to long thoracic nerve not innervating the serratus anterior. At 28 I may have injured in a football game with friends. Woke up extreme pain got three diagnosis, with one doctor recommending removal of disc in neck that he said was affecting the nerve.. I chose conservative therapy with Drs saying 75 percent chance of recovery in 3 years. Never happened still 100 percent paralysis.. Anyway it took years of trying to remain active at low levels and being careful of excercise routines. Realized early on push-ups were not going to work anymore for me. Continued mountaineering, swimming and trying to strengthen other muscles while doing daily activities. It still bothers me but I swim at least 2 miles per week.. A few years ago decided to cross country ski which I thought I would been unable to do, but started slow and ski about 5 times per year fairly aggressive. My advice is don’t shy away from normal activity and stay fit. Other muscles will compensate and help.
My issue now is I feel my back is not properly aligned and get back and shoulder pain. I also feel that my lower spine is off center and sticks out, I feel it when driving against the backseat. It’s been a 25 year issue, mainly don’t think about it,but it has affected my life. It was painful for years. One thing I do is especially n the shower has been to use one arm to help stretch the other completely over my head. I can’t lift a 3 pound jar with my arm extended but I have learned to keep my elbow at my side when lifting. The body is truly amazing how it adapts. Sorry for the long post but there is no one to talk to about this. Any advice would help and hope someone maylearnfrommy experience.
reddyb
September 25, 2016
Hey Neil,
Sorry to hear about your longterm winging issue. I appreciate the advice you’ve given.
In terms of specific help (from me at least), feel free to take a look at the remote client process. Happy to take a look and see if there’s anything I can be helpful with. https://b-reddy.org/2013/06/20/the-remote-client-process/
Brian
nicky
October 28, 2016
Hello Brian,
Excellent article as always!! Your articles are well explained and very informative…
I have muscle imbalance in my shoulders. My left shoulder is higher than the right one. My right shoulder drops slightly. My torso is twisted to the left.. i.e. my left rhomboid is weaker than the right rhomboid.
My right scapula is downwardly rotated and anteriorly tilted.
My left scapula is upwardly rotated, winged and anteriorly tilted.
I have seen many physios …with poor outcome…
Can you please suggest …how to cure my condition…I understand that… For right scapula I have to do pec minor, rhomboid stretch and strengthen upward rotators of scapula… But which exercise should I do in which order… I am confused…
I have been struggling since past 5 years…to cure my condition…If you can guide … that would be of great help..
Many thanks…
reddyb
October 30, 2016
Hey Nicky,
Thanks for the nice words. In terms of putting together specific help for a person, that’s where the remote client process comes in: https://b-reddy.org/2013/06/20/the-remote-client-process/
Val
December 7, 2016
Hi, I had labrum repair surgery almost 7 months ago. My inferior glenohumeral ligament was tightened and humerus pulled up as a result. I have a depressed scapula and much scapular movement. I have much shoulder pain with forward flexion and with internal and external rotation but range of motion is pretty full (except lacking some int. rot). I seem to be getting weaker and I find pain transferring up into my neck with arm activity. Ive been through PT and switched PTs a few times due to inconsistent direction (strengthen vs dont strengthen). Right now Ive started with theraband rowing, ext/int rot., prone scap retraction. This is as of 2 weekly visits with new PT ( he thinks my arms are too long to start out with lever exercises and Im very flexible). Im performing these exercises daily but I seem to be stiffening. Does this seem on track? What else would you recommend and when should I expect to see some progress? Thanks very much, Val
reddyb
December 9, 2016
Hey Val,
The way I’d think about this is if your scapula is depressed -it’s hanging low- then exercises which pull it down, or exercises which work the muscles which pull it down, should probably be avoided.
At the same time, exercises which work on elevating it should be implemented.
In the exercises you describe I see exercises which work the muscles which depress the scapula, like rowing, but I don’t see anything which work on elevating it.
The other element is you have trouble with shoulder flexion. How will this improve without working on exercises which engage shoulder flexion?
Go over this more here- https://b-reddy.org/2013/09/05/a-progression-to-lifting-your-arms-overhead-pain-free/
Talk about connection between low hanging shoulder and neck pain here- https://b-reddy.org/2011/07/21/just-because-it-feels-tight-doesnt-mean-it-is/
Ivan
January 22, 2017
Hey Brian,
If we look at the black and white picture in the post where woman is internally rotating her arm on the back and her scapulas are winging. You are talking here about lengthening of subscapularis and stiffening of infraspinatus and teres minor, but at the end of the post where you explain what muscles are utilized and what are stretched in overhead work there is no utilization of the subscapularis. My question is, can this condition where scapulas are winging when arms are put on the back be solved with overhead work or we have to work on subscapularis?
PS. When we put arms on the back, are scapulas supposed to be flat on the ribs and no winging at all? I am asking because I don’t know what this looks like then everything is normal.
Thanks
reddyb
January 24, 2017
If the humeral heads are not allowed to anteriorly glide during e.g. overhead work, then we’d be working the subscapularis in the way we want i.e. as a posterior puller of the humeral head.
If you think about getting into proper overhead pressing position, the shoulders have to externally rotate. For some just getting the shoulder to externally rotate without anterior glide is an exercise itself-
(though in that video the focus is more on internal rotation without anterior glide)
If you’re specifically trying to internally rotate the shoulder where the hand goes behind the back without winging, then I’d literally do that movement, not allowing winging to occur. That said, putting the shoulder in that position tends to be painful in the front of sensitive shoulders.
This isn’t something I regularly work with people on. Can it be done with no winging though? Yes. Should it will be up to the person and their situation. At least in how I do things. I know others are big on this assessment / movement, but I don’t use it as an assessment. I assess internal rotation through other means, like in the video above, as well as this way:
I will assess whether bringing someone’s elbow behind their shoulder causes pain though. If in shoulder extension there is anterior shoulder pain that’s a clear sign of anterior glide / anterior tilt issues.
I suppose you could say I’m breaking the movements down more, into shoulder extension and internal rotation separately, rather than doing them both simultaneously.
Ivan
January 26, 2017
If we look at the dumbbell overhead press, if we start in the position where palms are facing each other isn’t it that when arms are raising palms are starting to face forward, so the end position looks like you have barbell in your hands instead dumbbells. Isn’t it internal rotation? Wouldn’t external rotation be if the palms would start to face backwards?
What do you think of this exercise ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyfb9x7VJWE ) for someone like me who has flat thoracic spine? Eric Cressey is mentioning connection between flat thoracic spine and serratus anterior inactivation.
Thanks for replying.
reddyb
January 27, 2017
Think you’re confusing forearm pronation / supination with shoulder internal / external rotation. Someone can have the shoulders in an overhead press position but have the palms face one another. That is, shoulders can be externally rotated while forearms are supinated.
No need for a foam roller during wall slides, but wall slides are a good exercise.
Eric overwhelmingly works with very active teenagers / people in their early 20s. Your average trainee does not have too much thoracic extension, as the average person sits hunched over a desk all day. Eric’s population is even more narrowed as he works with a group who extend their thoracic spine a ton- baseball players. Be very careful applying that population to the average. This is something many readers / authors on the internet have had a hard time with. I left Eric’s facility as an intern to working with people 30 years old and up, most of whom had never barely ever been in a gym. The differences are enormous.
https://b-reddy.org/2013/08/12/16-ways-training-athletes-is-not-like-training-regular-people/
Sam Liddell
January 27, 2017
Hey Brian, Great article, Im not sure how I haven’t found this earlier. I thought I had read every article on the internet regarding this problem.
I have had noticeable winging of the left scapular for at least 7 years. I have seen 3 different physios, sports doctor and multiple GPs regarding this problem and none have been able to fix it. it feels very annoying nearly all the time, never a pain but a very irritating feeling in my shoulder and even down my left arm.
One doctor said the only time he had seen such a case was with someone who had been stabbed in the neck with a knife – again fitting with the damaged LTN theory. Physios always seemed to dismiss my theory and opt for months of (paid) therapy which always seem to feel good at that time but never completely fixed the problem.
I have since abandoned the countless physio sessions for the lacrosse ball and gym training which essentially does the same job.
I have always suspected I have an impinged Long thoracic nerve after breaking my left clavicle from a hard direct impact on the clavicle 2 years prior to noticing the winging.
Can you suggest some method for easing the impingement?
I appreciate your response and in depth article.
Sam
reddyb
January 29, 2017
Hey Sam,
Sorry to hear about your shoulder.
In terms of suggestions, the ones in the article as well as this one: https://b-reddy.org/2013/09/05/a-progression-to-lifting-your-arms-overhead-pain-free/
Where in that link you’d want to work on moving the arms overhead without winging occurring. Example of this here too: https://b-reddy.org/2016/02/24/an-example-of-correcting-scapular-winging-in-one-minute/
To get more specific, you might be interested in this: https://b-reddy.org/2013/06/20/the-remote-client-process/